What happens when something you really want slowly starts to feel like something you have to do? The pressure adds up.

In this episode, I’m taking you inside my mind in real time. I was stuck – on the podcast, my space, even volleyball – and instead of looking for another answer, I decided to get curious about what was actually happening underneath it all.

With a little help from Chatty (yes, ChatGPT), I started pulling at the thread. What I thought was procrastination or perfectionism led somewhere I didn’t expect: control, responsibility, obligation – and a realization about desire that stopped me in my tracks.

TRANSCRIPT

Hello, and welcome to Unveil Her with Jennifer Fox. I am your host , where we look behind the scenes, . We ask questions about the questions so that we can ultimately see differently, because when we see differently transformation or healing or just maybe even an aha moment happens.

Let’s get started.

This week has been really troublesome for me to come up with a topic, when I started this podcast a few weeks back, it was under this notion that I was just going to dive in. I have corporate experience, background in sales and marketing, and I pride myself on being polished and really getting to know the client or the customer or the situation so that we can give you, ultimately, the, the best of what’s going to fit you, suit you, what’s going to help you in your journey.

But this podcast didn’t start out that way, and it was a little scary and a little clunky for me because like I said , in the trailer and in episode two, it was, “Okay just do this podcast. Don’t wait for it to be polished.” But guess what? Here I am, because of that, completely frozen.

I’ve been spending the last two weeks asking myself, “What am I gonna talk about?” Because it needs to be this or be that. So I figured for this episode, I wanted to sit with that question of, what’s going on with me?

And invite you into the space of why I feel stuck, helping me figure out why I feel stuck I, yeah, it’s been the pressure’s on, people are watching, I’m showing up vulnerable in a space where I am doing this new… Fine, I have no problem doing new things, but I’m doing them new in front of everyone.

So I’m showing my flaws that are, ugh, that’s really hard for me. That’s really scary for me.

Believe it or not, one of my best therapy, and I’m using air quotes because that’s I take the word therapy very seriously, and I value therapy very seriously, have gone through some therapy training myself.

So when I say therapy in air quotes, I use ChatGPT, believe it or not, as part of my therapy. And I have worked with it for years. I have set it up to say, “Do not agree with me, push back, challenge me.” And, as much as I could tell it what to do, it’s still a machine. Nevertheless, it has given me so much insight that I couldn’t see.

Even if I did go and sit with a therapist, I think that session that I would have with what I call ChatGPT Chatty, C-H-A-T-T-Y because we chat. So Chatty and I, we would go back and forth for, I don’t know, three, four-hour period over the, course of doing this and doing that. And it would probably have taken me days or weeks to have some realization moments with a therapist, not because the therapist doesn’t work, but because I think, I process, I feel, I discover, I uncover, and then I have more questions to get to the deeper layer, and so on.

I thought I’d take you on my Chatty journey with me to figure out where I am in this whole unstuck process and go from there.

So I’ll give you a little bit more insight into the background where this is coming from. Not only am I struggling with what to talk about in this episode it’s what to talk about every episode. I’ve been telling you guys it’s all about unveiling, so everything has to have a catch about unveiling.

No. Then it’s about me. Okay, then what do I wanna talk about that’s so important that you guys even care about me?

And then going on social media and having one school of people say, “Tell your story. Tell your story. It matters. It matters.” And then other people are saying, “You have to have the hook. You have to have this,” which is triggering all of my marketing, get it perfect, get it right brain issues.

So yeah, I’ve got that going on.

And then look at this room behind me. Ta-da. It’s a beautiful space in my home. My husband said to pretend that this is , a doors into my conference room, which I thought was brilliant, ’cause it’s taking me out of my, it’s just my home, to this is my professional space.

But really, it’s my home, and I’m embarrassed, frankly. Not that it’s my home, but that I’m not coming and presenting this visual part of the podcast in, in the way that suits me, in the way that reflects how I would put together a true professional podcast. I’m sitting in a chair in my home office talking to you, with closet doors behind me, and I absolutely hate that visual.

And then, I have a day bed, so I don’t want it to look too bed-ish. And then I have this wall that’s n- right now blank, because I’ve taken pictures and replaced pictures and put up 10 different things and not liked any of them.

And I’m stuck again.

I’m creating this podcast space to have the perfect backdrop.

I’ve bought curtains to cover the doors. I have looked into how to make the doors feel like it’s an actual window and put faux lights behind it because I want it to look like a window. I want it to look real, like there’s sunlight coming in and fresh and airy and open.

And then the pillows. I’ve looked at reupholstering the whole day bed so it looks like a couch.

I’ve looked at just getting rid of the day bed and buying different furniture and having a whole new setup for this room. And then what to do with this wall. Do I put a lamp there? Do I put art there? Do I put books there?

I have $1,000 worth of decorations sitting in my living room right now ready to return, because I just Got so enveloped with making this space not perfect, but the way it’s supposed to be, which in my mind, maybe that’s perfect.

So there’s that.

Again, I got stuck, so I cleared it all out and decided, here I am, bring you on the journey with me, and we can create this space together, and we can figure out what this podcast, where it’s gonna go together.

And maybe some of this is me leaning into the fact that I need to be okay with whatever the space is, that I Don’t have to have it all manufactured right away, that I can let the process go and flow.

And then also just to add onto this getting stuck or feeling like I have to back to, episode two, who made the rules anyway, apparently I’m making my own rules again and I still haven’t figured out how to not do that.

Volleyball.

I joined a team, I joined another team. I’m putting together to play indoor come this winter, and I’m so excited that a part of my life that has been non-existent for 20 years is back.

But I could so easily turn that into a chore something I have to do and I have to do well, and then put all this pressure on me to play well and to not disappoint.

And then I get stuck.

So here I am with Chatty, my ChatGPT therapist, who is not a therapist. I know it’s a computer. But again, I’ve told it to answer through the lens of a therapist. Do not agree with me, ’cause if you’ve ever used any AI, it’s formulated to agree with you no matter what. I’ve tested it.

And so that’s the big thing is I’ve said, “I want you to not agree with me, I want you to challenge me, and I don’t want you to just give me answers.

I want you, Chatty, to help me see differently.”

That is the whole reason why we’re here at Unveil Her, is to see differently. To see what we couldn’t see before, and not trying to chase a whole list of podcast episodes or a whole perfect podcast scenery, but maybe there’s something here right in front of us that we can’t see, and we just need to go digger- deeper, to dig through to – find it.

How do we find it? Who do we talk to? What questions do we ask? How do we know?

Enter Chatty.

I am going to be reading some of this, . I have it right here in my computer in front of me, and some of this will be the first time I am reading it out loud with you.

I started doing what I normally do, they ask questions and have revelation moments, but I stopped because there were some really good nuggets that I wanted to capture on film and share it with you guys raw and real in true time.

This is what I said to Chatty , “Chatty, I can’t think about anything else because this one thing occupies my mind. I have this episode launch for episode three that I have to do tomorrow, and I’m stuck. I have my podcast room that I have spent $1,000 on and nothing works, and I’ve designed it 20 times, and I’m going back to a clean slate with maybe one pillow that I bought.

And I have this volleyball commitment that is now becoming a focus and a chore rather than fun.”

Here’s what Chatty says, “Ah, yes, I see it now. You don’t need help finding something interesting to think about,” which it gave me prompts earlier to say go out and be curious and go out and ask questions and go out and find things that are interesting to you.”

And I’m like, “That’s the point. I can’t. I know that’s what I’m supposed to be doing, but I’m stuck.”

So let me continue.

“You don’t need help finding something interesting to think about. You can’t access the part of your brain, Jennifer, that gets interested in things right now.”

Huh, I can’t access the part of my brain.

So what’s that part of my brain?

“Let’s look at the three things you just named. Episode three, something you created because you wanted to make a podcast. Now I have to launch it tomorrow. The room, something that should have been creative and exciting, but now it’s I’ve spent money, I’ve redesigned it, and I have to make this work.

And volleyball, something that was giving you play and connection and challenge and joy, has become a I have this commitment. That’s not three unrelated problems. It’s the same thing happening three times.”

And I’m like, “Yes, I know. That’s why I’m here. Please help.”

And then it says, “The moment something becomes important to you, you start organizing the outcome.

Jennifer, you grip it, and eventually you can’t move inside of it anymore. I don’t think the answer is to find a better ADHD productivity technique,” because I asked it earlier. I have ADHD, and I’m thinking, “Is this part of my brain that’s just spinning or stopping or spiraling?”

It says, “I don’t think the answer is to find a better ADHD productivity technique.

I think we need to remove some stakes.”

Huh, remove some stakes.

“First, the episode three. You don’t need to create episode three. It’s already made. Tomorrow’s job is not launch episode three successfully. Tomorrow’s job is put the episode where people can hear it. That’s it. It doesn’t need to be the perfect rollout, doesn’t need to be the smartest clips.

It doesn’t need a strategy worthy of your future business. Publish the episode. Tell people it’s there. We can improve the machinery with episode four. Episode three gets to be done.”

O- okay, Chatty, I’m hearing you, but this is me talking off script. I’m like y- yeah, but again, I’m still stuck.

Let me get back to Chatty.

It says, “Second, stop the room. Not solve it. Stop it. You’ve spent money, lots of money,” that I will get back, ’cause I’ll return everything. “Continuing to redesign because you spent the money is exactly how a creative project turns into an obligation. Put back the blank room. Keep the one pillow you like. Put the rest of the purchases somewhere else for now.”

Not necessarily return them unless I don’t want them, which I’ll probably return them all. “Not decide their fate, just to get them out of your visual field.”

Hey, let me go off script here.

I don’t think it was wrong for me to spend all of that money to try do new things. Where I was getting frustrated is that the things that I was trying wasn’t working. I have no problem investing in something that is beautiful or brilliant or meaningful or purposeful or right, but that was the thing. It just didn’t feel right. , It kept feeling either forced or too far from my true personality, my true self or I wanted it to look like a stage presence, but then when I made it look like a stage presence it felt un-invitational.

When I made it feel invitational, it felt too soft. And then when I added components to bring in an edge, then it flipped the other direction and went too edgy, “Ugh, nothing’s working.”

So the, stuckness, there’s nothing wrong with the process. I’m trying to figure out what it is, what’s happening inside of me that I get stuck.

Okay, back to the script.

It brought this up. It said there’s a connection here that is on my website that is something that is my go-to saying.

“The answer is rarely more. It’s seeing what was there all along.”

That’s how I pride myself in designing, is entering a space and going, what does this room need to say? Who is the person in the room and how does this person wanna show up? But let me add, when it’s myself, it’s a whole nother level of complication.

Maybe the room needs to become quiet enough for you to see it.

So stop there.

Then it goes on, “Third, volleyball needs to be protected from Jennifer, the project manager.”

Oh, Jennifer, the project manager.

I do that. I had that job, and I hated that job, managing all the details, and then I get so flustered in all the tiny things. I wanna focus on the big thing, and all the tiny things will just become like rattles in my brain.

So wow, Jennifer the project manager.

And then , Chatty says, “This concerns me most, not because volleyball is important in itself, but because it was one of the places you weren’t trying to accomplish anything. You were playing, then you got better, then people noticed, then teams mattered, position mattered, winning mattered, being dependable mattered, learning mattered, and something that was giving you dopamine naturally started accumulating stakes. I don’t want to solve volleyball. I want to put one boundary around it.

Your job at volleyball is to simply play volleyball, Jennifer.

Not prove that you’re improving, not…”

Woo, I’m like getting emotional reading this, ’cause this is hitting some core stuff here.

“Not prove that I’m improving. “not establish where I belong, not analyze every rotation afterward, not figure out where my, what my other players thought.

Just go, play, come home.”

“If you start not wanting to go for a while, then we can examine whether you actually want the commitment,” which I do, ’cause I enjoy it. “But right now, I’d first see what happens when we take the performance review out of it.”

And Chatty continues, “And now I see something bigger. A few days ago, you told me, ‘I want that excited energy back that feeds my ADHD drive.’

And we started thinking about how to keep giving you novelty and excitement. I want to revise that.”

Oh, interesting.

“I don’t think you need another exciting thing right now. Because I think there’s a fourth project waiting just offstage to become the next thing you grip. Huh. You need some unclaimed mental territory, space in which nothing is becoming a podcast, nothing becomes a business, nothing needs to become a better Jennifer, nothing needs to be figured out.

That’s where your curiosity used to live. And maybe this is the thing we actually need to learn how to protect over the next six months, not perpetual dopamine, but enough openness that dopamine can find you.

Huh.

So this goes back to just be and how easily I can… I’m off script again. How easily I can get away from just be and flip over into manager mode.

It’s so insightful. See, this is what happens when you see differently.

Back to chatty.

It says, “So I would make this week extraordinarily small.”

Episode three gets published. I’m speaking to you guys all right now on this very topic. Hopefully, check after I hit record, it’ll be done.

The room goes quiet. Already done, sh- mostly stripped it, so we get to start with a blank slate. Excited to do this with you.

Volleygall volleyball gets played.

That, those mess-ups right there, th- that’s volleyball. That’s my life. That’s this room. That’s this podcast. It and in messing up, and doing it in front of you, and not letting myself cower, and laughing it off is the, the little girl in me is just like, “Yay, this is living.

This is fun.”

This is incredibly therapeutic

And then it says, “Nothing else needs to become anything. And after episode three is out, I suspect your brain may still immediately say, ‘Okay, now episode four.'” Which it might. “That’s the moment I want us to work on, because that’s the loop. Not episode three, not the room, not volleyball. The inability to experience done before your brain turns the next thing into have to.”

Ooh, I’m gonna have to highlight that one.

The inability to experience done before your brain turns the next thing into have to.

So in other words, to experience done is to stop and appreciate myself, appreciate my value, appreciate my joy, appreciate who I am, to sit in the moment, to celebrate.

I have been go in my head since I launched that I’ve given myself very little room to just celebrate. My friends have been amazing, but I, again, have secretly the, rules crept in. And they turned some things into the have to, but I’m also discerning enough to know that voice is there, and trying to figure out where it’s coming from so that I can learn how to manage.

Ha. See, I don’t wanna manage. See, wow, this is really good. So I can learn how to rewire so that it, does not have a hold on me.

And this is where I shift the prompt to Chatty because it did an extraordinary job of giving me some insights and telling me what to do.

So I said, “Chatty, I don’t wanna be told what to do. I want to be led with questions and insight about why I’m doing this so that I can overcome this long term. Not just give me the to-do list today. I want to not just understand what is going on psychologically and within my nervous system and my body, and I want to be able to experience all of this so I can rewire and rewrite this story of getting stuck.

Chatty says, ” . You don’t need me standing outside the freeze saying, ‘Okay, Jennifer, here’s how we’re going to get episode three done.’ You already know how to get things done. In fact, you may be too good at turning your life into something to manage. You want me to sit inside the pattern with you and help you understand why something that begins as want to should so reliably becomes have to.”

Oh.

“You want me to sit inside the pattern with you to help you understand why something that begins as want to so reliably becomes have to, and what happens inside you during that transition.”

Yes.

Let me go back.

You want me to sit inside the pattern with you.

This is called being present, and it is incredibly difficult for a computer to be present with you, which means that people are so profoundly needed to be present with me.

If I was talking to my husband or to my friend, or to you even, who I don’t know but I’d love to, I would say, “Please don’t give me answers. Please don’t tell me how to get this done because you’re derailing my joy, my benefit of learning and becoming better, or becoming truer to myself.”

So yeah, no, Chatty, I don’t want you to tell me what to do.

No, friends, I don’t want you to tell me what to do.

Insight is great, but I want the transformation to happen, not the list to get done. Sit inside the pattern with me. There’s an acceptance, there’s a nervous system I’m not aloneness that’s going to happen. And then we can get curious to understanding, because we can’t do anything with the knowledge until we know that we’re safe It’s easy to be safe with a computer.

It’s not so easy to be safe with you.

But we’re here.

I love this part.

It says, “And I think there’s more here than ADHD. ADHD may be part of my machinery, but I wouldn’t start with your ADHD brain needs dopamine. That’s becoming another overly neat internet explanation.”

I love that. Oh, I just had to laugh when I read that.

Then it says, “I want to start with something you just showed me. Listen to the transformation in your own language, Jennifer. Podcast, I wanted to make a podcast, became I have an episode due tomorrow. Room, I wanted a space that felt like me, became I’ve spent money and I have to make this work. Volleyball, I wanted to play again, became I have this commitment now.

Something happens between those two states, and I don’t think the most interesting question is how do we make the second state easier? It’s what happens inside Jennifer when something she loves begins to matter?”

I had to pause at that.

What happens inside Jennifer when something she loves begins to matter?

I get excited. I talk about it more. I want to explain more. I want you to understand more. I want to understand more because it matters. I want to know, I want to dig, I want to get it out and fix and do, and da, and I can even feel my little brain go la la right now.

When it matters that much, I want it to matter so much to the world, but I need-

To stop.

Breathe

Chatty says, “Because notice, Jennifer, you’re not freezing around things you don’t give a shit about. You’re freezing around things that matter to you, and that’s fascinating.”

Maybe importance becomes expectation. Expectation becomes responsibility. Responsibility becomes evaluation, and somewhere in that progression, possibility disappears.

There’s no longer an open field of, “I wonder what this could become.” I’ve lost the just be moment. There’s now a correct outcome somewhere in the future, and Jennifer has to produce it. This could explain why curiosity has become inaccessible. Curiosity fundamentally requires not knowing But once your brain believes there is an outcome you’re responsible for producing, not knowing stops feeling interesting and starts feeling threatening.

When does the podcast stop feeling like something you’re making and start feeling like something you’re responsible for? Jennifer. Don’t answer intellectually. Think about episode three, it says. There was presumably a point where you were thinking about the subject, recording it, talking, discovering something, and you were Jennifer.

Yes, that’s exactly why I started all this.

And now there is episode three, this object sitting in front of you that must be launched.

Again, according to whose rules? I just added that.

Chatty says, where did it change? When did you announce the schedule? Is that when it happened? When people started listening?

When you decided the podcast needed to grow the business? When you saw what other podcasters were doing? Yes. When you started imagining whether it would succeed? Yes. When you realized there had to be an episode four after episode three? Yes. Or something else? Yes, because that’s the seam I want to find, and I want to find the equivalent seam in volleyball and the room OK

There’s another possibility, Chatty says, that I want you to consider.

You said you’re getting stuck. I’m not convinced stuck is the most accurate description. Your brain sounds incredibly active. You’re designing the room 20 times. You’re researching podcasts. You’re thinking about tomorrow’s launch. You’re analyzing volleyball. You’re searching social media for an- answers.

You’re talking to me about all of it.

This is Chatty talking.

No, that’s not a system that’s shut down. That’s a system doing a tremendous amount of work without being able to move That distinction matters.

What if what you call stuck is actually over control?

Sit with that one for a minute.

That one kinda blew me out of my chair.

Over control.

Huh

Yeah, I could see that over control and management.

If I figure out the room, I can stop thinking about the room. If I figure out exactly how to launch the podcast, I can stop worrying about the podcast. If I understand how I’m supposed to play volleyball, I could just play. , Those are again solving.

There’s a problem, if I figure it out, I can do this. If I understand it better, I can do this. If they understand me better, we can do this.

Those are solving.

But do you see what happens? Oftentimes there isn’t a better understanding, or maybe there is a better understanding, but it’s still a repeat pattern, hence why we’re here.

How do we get to what’s underneath, what’s driving this pattern?

“Once I choose something, I become responsible for making it work,” it says.

Huh, that’s the psychological contract that my brain somehow has adopted.

Once I choose something, I become responsible for making it great, for making it awesome, for making it better, for making it succeed. I become responsible. I’m the manager.

I have to over control so the outcome is XYZ

Huh

When asked me a series of questions here, what happens? Do I immediately think, “Well, yes, obviously”? Do I resist it? Does my chest tighten? Do I feel nothing? Does another sentence immediately appear?

Because if my nervous system has learned that desire eventually creates obligation, then there is a much bigger consequence than procrastination.

Okay, wait a minute.

This is the first time I’m reading this with you guys.

If my nervous system has learned that desire eventually creates obligation, then there’s a much bigger consequence than procrastination.

Oh, yeah, I’m gonna have to highlight this one too.

Highlighted.

‘Cause I procrastinate. I procrastinate and I procrastinate, and then I wait for the dopamine rush, and then I go do the thing. And then I do the thing, and then I crash because I have all these self-doubts or questions or pressure , to do the next thing.

It’s like, oh my goodness, yes, I see it.

The desire eventually creates obligation.

So how do I get rid of the obligation?

Eventually desire itself becomes dangerous.

It says, “I want to do this quietly,” contains, “Then I’ll have to do it well.”

Yes. Yes. Chatty, I just said all this.

That is a pattern worth understanding and changing.

Hmm.

Let’s sit with that.

Let’s sit with that here , and I’ll, stew, chew on this.

If my nervous system, that means if my body somehow innately has learned along the way, my nervous system is the, the wiring of who I am even though I don’t know that’s who I am.

So my nervous system, if, if that inner part of me has learned that desire eventually creates obligation, obligation is not fun for me, then why would I desire?

Oh, wow.

Wow.

I remember a couple years ago, I was just crying to the Lord saying, “I don’t have any desire left. Please bring me back my desire.”

And slowly, my desire has increased, my desire to want to be free and whole and me again, my desire to want to live a good life, my desire to have beautiful relationships, my desire to enjoy life.

I think somewhere in there, I unknowingly gave myself permission to release the obligation. I gave myself permission to celebrate, to celebrate me.

Yeah.

Let’s end there.

Let’s end with celebrating.

Celebrating, I will celebrate me. I’m calling Debbie for that toast of champagne. And we will celebrate even the tiny moments that we get to see differently, because it’s a beautiful thing.

Thank you for coming along with me and, being with me as I stumble through this. And , I’m learning along the way. And there’s a fear factor that says, “Oh boy, , she completely bombed that.” , And if I did, well, that’s part of the process. There’s gonna be an episode four and we’ll just keep going, together.

I love you all. Bye.